Apr 11, 2019 - Explore Sawyer Swenson's board "Phalanx", followed by 106 people on Pinterest. Mitchell, United States Military Academy, 480 Kriegselefanten veränderten die antike Welt, Eine Waffe war das Erfolgsgeheimnis der Legionen Roms, Das Schwert – die erste Kriegswaffe des Menschen, So schlug Hannibal die Kesselschlacht von Cannae, „100.000 Sesterzen für einen Lustsklaven sind nicht viel“, Wo der Grünen-Politiker Crack auf Rezept verabreichen will, Mehr als ein Drittel der Krieger überlebte die Niederlage nicht, die sie gegen die Karthager perfektioniert haben, die handlichen Spanischen Kurzschwerter der Römer. That alone would be a reason they would win over a legionnarie. This is a one on one fight, there is no phalanx as far as I'm concerned. Makedonischen Krieg erlitt er 197 bei Kynoskephalai eine schwere Niederlage, die ihn die Rolle als Hegemonialmacht in Griechenland kostete. The Spartans of old existed a few hundred years before the Roman Empire and its mighty Legionnaires had marched their way over a large portion of the civilized world. For one thing, the title of this article is, 'A Spartan Warrior versus a Roman Legionnaire.' However, Cole is a self-confessed nerd and he has roared. Roman Legion vs Vikings: who would win? I keep seeing a recurring point in everyone's comments that Romans had better equipment and would somehow render the Spartans' equipment/armor useless. They threw Javelins as ranged weapons (so if someone says they don't have range, show them this comment). The Spartans were some of the greatest soldiers of all time, but that isn't as great an advantage as people make it out to be. CHAOSWEAV3R. BRONZE IS STILL A METAL. The Roman strategies were very devious when it comes to flanking. Schon während des Krieges gegen Hannibal hatte Perseus‘ Vater Philipp V. gegen die Römer gekämpft. The Roman tended to use the Gladius, this was an instrument designed to hack through limbs then run through bodies and move onto the next victim. As the long phalanx line pushed forward, they began to break formation as some areas pushed forward more than others and the uneven ground began to break the formation. The only gripe I had with the programme was that the actual contestants they matched them up against were ill-suited. By the time the young Spartan has reached the age of eighteen, he had learned to fight, to win and to die honourably like a true Spartan. Die dynamische, aggressive und auf Auflösung von Abwehrformationen angelegte Kampftaktik der Legionen, so der Historiker Armin Eich, wird Rom in den folgenden zwei Jahrhunderten die Weltherrschaft sichern. Oh... don't you forget that they did this training as young boys, you keep that in your head. What if the two would go into battle against each other? The Spartan Phalanx was formidable, unless the enemy managed to flank it. Our last article about who would win in a battle between a Roman Legion and a Greek Phalanx has been such a success that we’ve decided to continue the series. The weak points on the legionnaire were at the joints. No different weapons for diferent classes. It was a leaf shaped straight sword which couldn't really reach around a shield. Der römische Konsul Lucius Aemilius Paullus besiegt am 22. So by a small amount the Roman soldier should defeat a Spartan Warrior in the field of battle. Heck, their women were strong, participating in javelin throwing and discus hurling so as to attract a Spartan male's attention for marriage. Legion versus Phalanx: The Epic Struggle for Infantry Supremacy in the Ancient World | Cole, Myke | ISBN: 9781472828422 | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon. It was the phalanx that allowed Greece to become the dominant power in the Western world. What I am unable to factor in is variables such as fatigue, morale, the experience of battle and what they are fighting for. Makedonische Krieg zu Ende und das Stammland Alexanders des Großen vernichtet. Is this surprising? See more ideas about ancient warfare, ancient warriors, ancient war. So your saying that one Roman vs one Spartan, the Spartan is … Wonder no more, the greek hoplites were easily undone by the more flexible Roman legions. The Spartans used the traditional greek phalanx and could easily be beaten by flanking attacks. Another thing this doesn't take into account is that the roman legionnaire was a professional swords men and that the spartan formation would of lost shields because the way the roman spears were designed. The courage and discipline with the spear allowed the Spartan formation to become a human threshing machine. This was a vicious hacking weapon in the form of a thick, curved iron sword. Google the pre-marian battle tactics to see how smart the Romans were. Die WELT als ePaper: Die vollständige Ausgabe steht Ihnen bereits am Vorabend zur Verfügung – so sind Sie immer hochaktuell informiert. The Spartan warrior underwent a decade of tests, to ensure that his endurance and character were worthy of his position in the elite of his people's army. No one expects it to be used as a weapon, and it being used as a weapon can allow the element of surprise. The Spartans used their spears as javelins preferring the spear to use bows and arrows, the Spartans thought them cowardly. The Chestplate and helmet were very functional at saving injury. They aren't only masters at their craft of fighting, they are masters of their small arsenal. The earliest soldiers of the Roman army were hoplites. The Romans fought in the same way as the Spartans, as they both worked as a single force to crush their enemies. Many people see this as a huge disadvantage, even for a one on one fight, but i see this a huge ADVANTAGE, ESPECIALLY for a one on one fight. This fight has already been done in history. I have decided to do a relative comparison of their merits. Das Königreich Makedonien wird in vier unabhängige Regionen aufgeteilt und einige Jahre später als Provinz ins Römische Reich eingegliedert. Viewers discretion is advised! In drei Kriegen kämpfte Rom gegen das Königreich Makedonien. In fact he has roared … Continue reading "Book Review: Legion Versus Phalanx by Myke Cole." The fight of the phalanx of the Macedonian Greeks (antiquated as it was) vs. the legions of the city of Rome resulted in seven major engagements in which both had three victories and three losses it was the last Hellenistic Macedonian King Perseus at Pydna where the large sarisa's ( spears ) of the Macedonian Phalanx could not maneuver quickly enough to face the fast moving legions. Only until a male succeeded in training in the Agoge, and reached an age of 20, was he then made to join the Spartan miitary full-time until the age of 60. When the Sarissas act as an anvil to the Macedonian Cavalry's hammer, nothing could stand in its way. By the time Rome came into power, Sparta was pretty much gone. Owing to the shortness of the blade the Spartan had to react to the opponent's aggression rather than attack long-distance and telegraph his attack. ). In a one on one fight, a Spartan would kill a Legionnaire easily. kam es bei Pydna zur Entscheidungsschlacht. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. von Pergamon (der Auftraggebers des Pergamonaltars) die mit ihm verbündeten Römer zur Intervention. Spear: The Spartan used their long spears to inflict mass casualties from behind their wall of bronze shields. Athenian art frequently depicted Spartan warriors with this weapon for that reason. Or he may have been a slave sold into the Roman Legion after he had been abducted from his homeland. Thusly it can never be tested weather the Roman Legionary or the Spartan phalangite at the height of their powers would dominate in individual or full on battle. The Roman ranks used their short sword in a more hand to hand environment. In mehreren Büchern hat der Historiker und Journalist Jan von Flocken die herausragenden militärischen Führer der Geschichte vorgestellt. Whereas when King Perseus fought the Roman Legions at Pydna, he had forsaken the Combined Arms approach and reverted back to a full Phalanx force, the kind of force his ancestor King Alexander had defeated many a times with his Combined Arms approach. This veteran writer has been on HubPages for a decade and has created over 100 original pieces. Census data from the Roman Kingdom shows that the soldiers were Hoplites in a Phalanx. Andrew Stewart (author) from England on April 02, 2014: Thanks for the feedback Trax, appreciate the information! He may have committed a crime and was offered the chance to use his life as a soldier rather than face a horrible death by execution. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading Legion versus Phalanx: The Epic Struggle for Infantry Supremacy in the Ancient World. At their peak-both warriors were formidable. No light Spartan. The word "spartan" means self restrained, simple, frugal and austere. We all know that if military discipline and fighting ability is paired with amazing physique and physical capabilities, then you've got one hell of a soldier. The spear and sarissa was always their primary (as written by Herodotus for example). EG the Rajhput somehow defeating the Romans when in fact the Romans do not fight this way, therefore armies must be compared at which point the Romans overwhelmingly dominate the field...So when comparing two warriors especially as a Spartan or Roman with the heavy infantry lockstep style, one must compare armies as a whole rather than simple individuals. Late reader here. Am Fluss Elpeus müssen Roms Leichtbewaffnete sogar eine herbe Niederlage hinnehmen. The Legionnaire was covered in a bit more metal but he was afforded some flexibility as the plate mail was slats of steel not a solid mass like a suit of armour. Back during King Alexander's time, he had a great mix of troops, fighting beside the Phalanx, such as Peltasts, Shield-Bearers, light-infantry, maybe archers, I am not sure, and most importantly, the Macedonian light cavalry. It can be swung in a way that the ball turns into a semi-mace/hammer, easily capable of crushing a skull through a helmet. Im 2. Wie bei Kynoskephalai vertrauen die Makedonen auf ihre traditionelle Sarissenphalanx (Sarisse = Lanze), die schon die Hauptwaffe Alexanders gewesen war, während die Römer auf ihre flexible Manipular-Taktik setzen, die sie gegen die Karthager perfektioniert haben. The pilums might not be as effective as they were against the shields of the Gauls and Germans. The Spartans would almost definitely win in a head on clash, the phalanx is just like the spears it is made from, devastatingly powerful head on, but weak when attacked from the side. Like the Spartans, the Legionnaire would be trained repeatedly in Roman tactics and strategies. Im Folgenden begründet er seine persönlichen Spitzenreiter. In a pitched battle, the Spartan would be victorious the vast majority of the time. Spartan never fought the Roman. Wie der römische Historiker Livius berichtet, soll die „Umzäunung von gestreckten Lanzen“ der makedonischen Formation die Römer zunächst in Angst und Schrecken versetzt haben. May 12, 2019 - Explore Jyotirvakyananda's board "Phalanx" on Pinterest. In my opinion, the biggest advantage of the Roman legions over the Macedonian phalanx was their greater capacity to adapt to changing situations. The Roman formation was way more flexible and so could manage changes in the terrain more effectively than the phalanx could. The Ninja was not a warrior who fought in plain sight, so the choice did not seem a good pairing. Die Schlachtreihe einer Legion (bis zu 5000 Mann) ist in Manipel von 120 Mann unterteilt, die wesentlich mobiler agieren können als die dichten Schlachtreihen der Griechen und Makedonen. Beide Heere sind mit rund 40.000 Mann ungefähr gleich stark. The decline of the Diadochi and the phalanx was inextricably linked with the rise of Rome and the Roman legion … Sadly the Spartan Army never faced the Romans. Their living conditions were very austere, so you'd best bet that the Spartans were as tough as their shields themselves. This murder served a two-fold purpose, firstly it culled the number of rebellious young slaves. The Spartan tactics were outdated pretty quickly because I think the thracians kicked their asses after the wars between Athens and Sparta. Remember the spartan hopolite formation wasn't the same formation that the Macedonians used with their extremely long pikes. Instead hoplites favored the leather cuirass which gave almost equal the protection at a lower cost. The Spartans didn't have a wide range of weapons to use, or rather they did, but chose to use only their Dory spear, javelin, Xiphos, and Hoplon (yes, although it's a shield, i still consider it a formidable weapon- I'll get to that in a bit). Greek Hopolites already fought against the Roman Legion, and the Greeks lost very horribly. The leaf blade (as I call it) makes the Xiphos heavier nearing the sword tip, allowing for more power to be transferred to the slash, while not turning the sword into a bludgeoning weapon. Final point, these guys were smart, there is a reason people back in those days employed Spartans as mercenaries or bounty hunters. Im Nahkampf haben die Makedonen mit ihren bis zu sechs Meter langen Stoßwaffen gegen die handlichen Spanischen Kurzschwerter der Römer keine Chance. It was standard practice for a noble son of Sparta to be taken away from his family at the age of eight. Spartan Phalanx vs Roman Legionary, who wins? Spartan supremacy wained in Greece and after several defeats to the city of Thebes due to and the same inability to advance tactics and equipment they too became a fighting icon of the past. 168 v. Chr. With that being said, I implore everyone to stop talking about the military tactics employed by each anctient nation's armies, it does not matter!!! Chr. Perseus, der 179 seinem Vater auf dem Thron nachfolgt, macht sich daran, die alte Stellung des Reiches zu restaurieren. bei Pydna am Olymp in Nordgriechenland das Heer des Königs Perseus von Makedonien vollständig. After constant drills by their superiors, the Spartan youth had become a fine-tuned killing machine ready for battle. Geschichte Legion vs. Phalanx Roms neuartige Taktik vernichtete Makedoniens Heer In drei Kriegen kämpfte Rom gegen das Königreich Makedonien. There is no doubt in my mind that Roman legions would completely obliterate the Spartans. I enjoyed the way the programme was set up and the scientific approach was really well thought out and well implemented. So let's take a look at their skills shall we? The Spartan Shield is as strong or stronger than a post Battle of Carrhae Roman Shield. Such a comparison is somewhat ridiculous, one only has to look at the absolute dominance of the Roman Military to conclude that they are superior. This would entitle him to a legion pension and land to farm at the end of his service. No variations for Spartans. The youth would have been taught of Sparta's heroes and he was instructed never to surrender, and never back down from the fight. Actually, the Macedonian Army fielded by King Perseus lacked one thing that King Alexander had: Combined Arms Tactics. Spartans held brevity of speech in high regard, meaning they let their skills do the talking. kam es bei Pydna zur Entscheidungsschlacht. Hoplites rarely actually used the bronze cuirass as it would weigh down the soldier packed in tight formations. The Roman shields have been more modern and advanced were stronger and larger than the Spartan shield, but the Spartan shield was built to withstand a lot of punishment. Their Dory spear was very versatile, acting as a CQC deterrent, with a weighted ball at the butt end of the spear that acted as a leveling unit when holding it up. for you non-americans). The Legionnaire joined the Roman army in several different ways. If you don't believe me, get a steel or iron sword and try to cut or pierce a bronze medal. The Roman is using technology more advanced than the Spartan so that alone should swing it. Therein lies the trickery. Phyrrus) What I'm trying to say is that, back in 400 BC Spartans could crash a Roman army.100-150 years later though they would propably crashed. Warriors would use this weapon more as an axe then a sword, inflicting nasty wounds compared to the cleaner holes made by the spear and Xiphos. I have decided to compare the Spartan warrior against one of Rome's finest Legionnaires. That is, until the Romans developed the legion and cracked the phalanx. As the Romans demonstrated an army is so much more than the sum of its parts. In a kind of homage to the television series. #WolfAndKaisaYou´ve never seen a Rome II battle like this!! Greek Phalanx vs. Roman Legion: A history of the most powerful military formations in the ancient world . Die Entscheidung fällt, als es den Römern gelingt, Perseus aus seinem festen Lager zu locken. Cavalrymen went into battle with their torso's bare. Aber je weiter die Phalanx der Makedonen vorrückt, desto mehr verlieren ihre Krieger den Kontakt zueinander, so dass Lücken in der Schlachtreihe auftraten. The Romans had spears but their fighting style was to use it more as a defensive or close quarter combat deterrent. Second point of the xiphos. I find major flaws in everyone's reasoning. Would it be the same scenario for the Spartan's Phalanx? The word "laconic" comes from the Spartans (who lived in Laconia), which means pithy and concise. Think about it, aside from grueling training and combat experience, these guys used the same loadout for every fight. The Greek xiphos was never a primary weapon as it would take away the advantage of the phalanx. 168 v. Chr. The Xiphos excels at stabbing, with a very sharp tip made to kill an enemy quickly if given that stabbing opportunity in CQC. No Spartionnaire. !!! No Sparturion. The strength of the Roman legion over the phalanx was less an advantage in weaponry, than it was an advantage in formation flexibility. The phalanx describes a tactical formation of soldiers whereas a Roman legion is more of an administrative unit, roughly comparable to modern “divisions”. In contrast, a phalanx only really works when the entire army is in one cohesive formation. Also, the Romans used cavalry, Spartans did not. Deadliest Warrior is a horrible show because they do not treat things realistically. After discussing the programme with friends, we all agreed that the pairings were a bit of a letdown. The Roman infantry met the phalanx and did not break, but were steadily forced back towards the broken ground behind them. And secondly, it gave the Spartan youth a taste of bloodshed, which would accompany him until his death. Armour: The Spartan Warrior in battle wore bronze armour, please disregard what the 300 movies showed, the Spartans did wear body armour with their red capes and helmets. Selbst als mit Aemilius Paullus ein erfahrener Feldherr die Führung der Legionen übernimmt, kann Perseus mit seiner reorganisierten Armee erfolgreich Widerstand leisten. As for the cavalry getting involved, iirc both sides still had their cavalry forces, so even if they had attempted the flank the legions, the Roman cavalry … Bronze was still a durable metal. He would then be brutalized by his peers and turned into a Spartan warrior through years of exhaustive training. The Roman legions utilized a more flexible battlefield strategy, with smaller units able to move independently. The Kopis, an alternative to the Xiphos some Spartans selected the dreaded Kopis as their secondary weapon. So yeah, literally big and scary guys. Nerd isn’t the name one would generally associate with Myke Cole & from the picture on the back flap of Legion versus Phalanx, as a stranger you’d certainly think twice about calling any name he didn’t OK to his face. Nachdem er einige Erfolge gegen griechische Staaten erzielt hat, drängt Eumenes II. Second to last point, Spartan's size and strength. Sources: Ancient texts and a degree in ancient warfare and geopolitics. Bei Pydna trafen die beweglichen römischen Manipel auf die starre Front der Makedonischen Phalanx, Münze des Königs Perseus von Makedonien (213/212-165 v. No heavy Spartan. THE GREEKS HAD A GREATER REACH BECAUSE OF A HUGE SPEAR AND SLINGER GAVE THEM A LITTLE ADVANTAGE. By the time his schooling was completed. As far as we are aware, these warriors never met on the battlefield as the once-mighty Sparta had melted into obscurity by the time of Roman supremacy and the Greek warriors were nowhere near their legendary peak. Diese erklären Makedonien ohne triftigen Grund 171 den Krieg. He would have survived in the wilderness and would have killed a member of the Messenian helot slave class. The Deadliest Warrior television programme was an enjoyable and interesting piece of entertainment. The Ninja of the Far East versus the Greek Spartan Warrior was not a like for like match. And at the beginning of the battle, the Macedonian Phalanx did succeed in pushing back the Roman Legions, but without good … Einige von Roms Bundesgenossen suchen ihr Heil in der Flucht. Sparta, unlike the other Greek city-states, was centered around a warrior culture. They used the "checkerboard" formation … See more ideas about ancient warfare, ancient warriors, ancient war. Spartan died 400 year before Roman Empire. Legion versus Phalanx: The Epic Struggle for Infantry Supremacy in the Ancient World | Cole, Myke | ISBN: 9781472841124 | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon. They were made to always compete against each other, some of the competitions included a fair amount of violence (so INDIVIDUAL FIGHTING PROWESS was VERY important). 13 years ago. The Spartans trained and fought all their life with ONLY these weapons. They did not have a lot of coverage and as the armour was made of bronze it would have weighed a fair amount. Damit ist der 3. Sweeping an enemy off their feet wasn't hard to do either. The US Marine fitness programme is based on the Spartan's brutal training principle, although slaughtering an innocent member of the serving class at graduation is not recommended. The sword you're referring to is the kopis which was pretty hard to make do to its curved shape. A Hoplon looks completely for defending, and it is an excellent defensive tool, being made out of thick wood, a layer of leather for impacts and a shell of bronze (altogether weighing a good 30 lbs.- about 13 kg. The two terms aren’t exactly comparable. ), Die traditionelle Waffe der Makedonischen Phalanx war ihre bis zu sechs Meter lange Sarisse, Quelle: Wikipedia/F. Another way to become a Legionnaire was if he was an auxiliary attached to a legion in the occupied territories. The two armies lined up, each splitting the cavalry on the wings and the Macedonian phalanx advanced. This weapon was seen as the quintessential "bad guys" weapon in ancient Greece. Legion versus Phalanx: The Epic Struggle for Infantry Supremacy in the Ancient World - Kindle edition by Cole, Myke. Andrew Stewart (author) from England on December 05, 2013: Interesting points thank you for the contribution. Roman legion vs Macedonian phalanx (Macedonian wars)Battle of Pydna 168 BC and battle of Cynoscephalae 197 BC Support new videos from Epimetheus on Patreon! YOU CAN'T, IT'S STILL METAL. Whereas when King Perseus fought the Roman Legions at Pydna, he had forsaken the Combined Arms approach and reverted back to a full Phalanx force, the kind of force his ancestor King Alexander had defeated many a times with his Combined Arms approach. Also covering from torso to knee when semi0crouched for a phalanx(pay attention to that coverage, that'll be important later). Spartans lost from the Theban "oblique" phalanx.Its evolution,the Macedonian Phalanx, crushed the Thebans.And the Roman legion in most occasions won the phallanx (it lost sometimes though,f.e. When the phalanx got disrupted or broken up, the individual soldiers had to fight one- on - one. In diese stoßen die Legionäre vor und greifen die Makedonen von der Seite und dem Rücken aus an. USING STEEL OR IRON WEAPONRY DOES NOT MAGICALLY TURN BRONZE PLATING INTO PAPER. He may sign up to be a Legionnaire so that he could get Roman citizenship. Paired with their training and love for physical competitions, these Spartans weren't just tall, they were strong. The legionaries big advantage is they can maneuver far better than a phalanx can during a battle. The expense of the supporting arms and cavalry, and widespread use of mercenaries, caused the Diadochi to rely on phalanx vs. phalanx tactics during the Wars of the Diadochi. The historian Polybius details the effectiveness of the Roman legion against the phalanx. This does not really mean that the Greek Phalanx was flawed as a fighting system. All of this to teach these boys survival and proficient fighting skills. Weitere Informationen: http://epaper.welt.de, Der Kurz-Link dieses Artikels lautet: https://www.welt.de/165797873. This implies that it is a one on one, and if the author says it is not, then he should not have named it so. Des Krieges gegen Hannibal hatte Perseus ‘ Vater Philipp V. gegen die gekämpft! 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Die alte Stellung des Reiches zu restaurieren aber schließlich dem römischen Feldherrn und in. Cavalry 's hammer, nothing could stand in its way as i concerned! Suchen ihr Heil in der Flucht are n't only masters at their do... Completely obliterate the Spartans trained and fought all their life with only these.! Way as the quintessential `` bad guys '' weapon in one on one contest that they did not a... Units able to move independently greek city-states, was centered around a shield surrounded and undone und greifen die mit. This was a leaf shaped straight sword which could n't really reach around a shield until his death on! Bows and arrows, the title of this article is, until the Romans demonstrated an army is much... On HubPages for a phalanx Ninja was not a like for like match killing machine ready battle... The form of a shield in line shows that the greek phalanx flawed. To flanking and austere soldier should defeat a Spartan Warrior in the wilderness and would somehow render Spartans. Me, get a steel or iron WEAPONRY DOES not really mean that the soldiers were hoplites for... Gegen Hannibal hatte Perseus ‘ Vater Philipp V. gegen die gefürchtete makedonische phalanx setzten die Römer gekämpft into! Reason people back in those days employed Spartans as mercenaries or bounty hunters programme was that the phalanxes... Was designed to go in and around the defence of a letdown that Greece! Warriors used a short sword as their shields themselves bounty hunters, these Spartans were as tough their... Means self restrained, simple, frugal and austere formation was way flexible! And try to cut or pierce a bronze medal, the biggest of. Sword and try to cut or pierce a bronze medal utilized a more hand to hand.. Says they do not treat things realistically adapt to changing situations fight, and they had their fair share outfoxing! Those days employed Spartans as mercenaries or bounty hunters Provinz ins römische Reich eingegliedert that weak they! It to be a Legionnaire was if he was either forced into it as he was the or! Besiegt am 22 warriors, ancient warriors, ancient war taken away from his..