are triangular bayonets illegal

I should note that I am speaking based on sources from the American Revolutionary War. The idea seems to go hand-in-hand with a myth that the Geneva or Hague conventions banned the use of triangular bayonets (already discussed elsewhere on this talk page), so I expect it is itself a myth. They are made of a single- or double-edged blade that could be used as a short sword. I have also been told that triangular bayonets were banned by the Geneva Convention because of this. Most things that I have read through my Google search supports these ideas. U.S.M1855 TRIANGULAR BAYONET & SCABBARD CIVIL WAR. Many Civil War bayonets (though not all) were socket-style, meaning they had a hole that slipped over the muzzle of the gun and locked into place. If three was enough to cause excessive bleeding six would have, by that logic, been bordering on criminal. http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/rifle/3/1288253580.jpg. Get the best deals on Bayonet when you shop the largest online selection at eBay.com. Having written the book on it I feel quite comfortable taking your word on it. It is illegal to own the following types of knives in California: Cane knives, lipstick knives, belt knives and any other knife that can be classified as misleading is illegal … A bayonet (from French baïonnette) is a knife, dagger, sword, or spike-shaped weapon designed to fit on the end of the muzzle of a rifle, musket or similar firearm, allowing it to be used as a spear. The weight, shape and attachment of bayonets have changed throughout history in order to increase the effectiveness of the musket and the bayonet. Table of Contents. NOTE: this is pure speculation on my part. Sword and knife bayonets were used in later centuries. Bayonets are obviously of no sporting utility, although they could be marginally useful in the personal and civil defense contexts. I have also been told that triangular bayonets were banned by the Geneva Convention because of … The unfullered triangular blade and longer 3.00 in. Alessan March 21, 2010, 1:24pm #26 The triangular shape often meant the innards are held by the bayonet when you twist so when extracted, out comes the bayonet, dragging some of the innards as well. Triangle bayonets are not explicitly mentioned in the Convention. $16.80 shipping. The thing that I am missing is any actual documentation on this. A triangular bayonet causes no more injury than an equally sized bullet wound Triangular bayonets are legal, just don't mount them on a rifle. California is an open-carry state. The triangular bayonet blade is made from hand forged high carbon tempered steel. Bayonets from Selected Countries of the World updated March 4, 2008: Help us keep this Identification Service alive. A Union bayonet from the Civil War era will usually have the word "U.S.” on its underside, and might have a serial number engraved in the same location. According to The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Warfare, "bayonets with long triangular cross-sections were stronger in the charge and thrust than single or double bladed weapons" (Page 414). Why stop? For further info check out my book "Guide to Bayonets of the World" at http://www.wbdpublications.co.uk/11-bayonets/index.htm. Sword bayonets were popularly attached to “Baker Rifles.” (76 mm.) The triangular blade causes no more blood loss than a wound made by any other bayonet of comparative size. Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. Wikipedia: Bayonet #Early History Example of a plug bayonet showing the end of a knife inserted into the muzzle of a musket. There are only very few mentions of bayonet wounds in medical journals and none mention a triangular blade. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskHistorians community. its seems that even if you buy the thing at a store, and put it on the seat next to you in the car its illegal. of the hole? The screwdriver point, mentioned in this thread, was developed to easier penetrate bone than a sharp point. If, indeed, they had been particularly disliked or invented for the purpose of creating bleeding or pain, it is likely that American propaganda would have picked up on the Hessians' use of six sided bayonets! Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://www.wbdpublications.co.uk/11-bayonets/index.htm. It's "illegal" on a battlefield, but not in your house. I sold my M1 Garand and bayonet to a California buyer, but my dealer refused to ship the bayonet. I suspect that ease of production plays a huge part in this. Bayonet History Timeline —read about key milestones in the bayonet's history, from the 1500s to the present day.. Bayonet Terminology —diagrams showing the basic terminology used to describe bayonets, scabbards, and frogs.. Glossary of Bayonet Terms— definitions of common bayonet terms. It shouldn’t really suprise anyone that an infantryman wanted to limit the horrible ways he could have died. The bayonet transformed the musket from a medium to long range weapon into one effective at close range as well. It turns out that they were not and were still used by multiple countries not only during World War I, but as well as during parts of World War II. There was no longer a need for pikemen to defend musketeers in battle because one soldier could defend himself against an enemy less than 100 yards away. What is the dia. The bayonet was primarily used during cavalry charges and in close range combat. Just curious really, im buying the thing regardless. Untrue, I'm afraid. Bayonets of any type are against the law in many states, such as Cali or Michigan. $395.00. The Geneva Convention did ban triangular bayonets, knives etc.. ALPHA military phonetic for the letter 'A' ammo dump location where live or expended ammunition is stored amtrack amphibious armored vehicle used to transport troops and supplies, armed with a .30-caliber machine gun. I have been told on several occasions that the old triangular bayonet was meant to inflict a would that was messier and harder to heal than a flat blade. Since the wound inflicted by triangular bayonets is difficult to repair, and causes more initial bleeding than that of a two sided bayonet, one could classify triangular bayonets under a clause which prohibits weapons causing undue suffering after the conflict has ended. And having stopped using this style, what convinced the British Commonwealth to use pig stickers on their Enfields during WWII? BTW here is the law on Chinese SKS- that started a lot of this On the other hand, a Confederate bayonet does not have the same standardization in markings. Made by N.J. Edmunds (S356) (20k) and Grundy Ltd. (S41) (56k). Alright, I've dug up something on the reasoning behind triangular bayonets. 75,280 bayonets were believed produced during 1943–1944. Triangular Bayonets Actually, they could be ruled as illegal, but there is no direct ban by International law about triangular bayonets. Legal Notice - International Military Antiques, Inc observes all Federal, State and local laws. Jerry Miculek - Pro Shooter 1,051,152 views Price: $52.95. Sku:AH-3551. A musketball wound would have done far, far more damage than the single thrust of a bayonet. Enfield Bayonet. or Best Offer. Or in their pawn shop. Certain states have "assault weapon"(sic) bans in place that do not allow the combination of certain features of semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. $30.00 shipping. Under legislation sponsored by Representative William Hughes in 1990, any gun which could accept a bayonet could be considered an illegal "assault weapon." I just like knowing what the laws are in case i get pulled over and the po-po gets all cartman on me. Nearly all of the bayonets were believed scrapped, making period examples like this one quite rare today. Ending Thursday at 6:05PM PST 3d 14h. Another thing that might have been a factor is that a slim blade would make a smaller wound, which would be more likely to have that suction effect, trapping the blade whereas a triangular design might have avoided this. Barrett M107 .50 cal Sniper full review, shooting, ammo testing, and explosives with Jerry Miculek - Duration: 1:15:40. These sources agree that it is not the triangular shape in itself causing profuse bleeding, rather it is the thrust of a strong bayonet in itself that does the damage. Ease of production, maybe? Proceeds and commissions from these sales - in part - go towards the purchase of additional reference materials and acquisition expenses. They just didn’t opt for the obvious choice. It has a socket and a ring where it is attached to a rifle. Non-automatics are exempt from this law. If you have one you're good to go. blunderbuss2, 8 years ago That eliminates muzzle-loaders & guns up to about 1890. Triangular Bayonets “According to the Geneva Convention of 1949: That a ban is placed on serrated and angular bayonets, because the wounds left behind place undue suffering that persists even after the conflict has been resolved. I'd recommend against using a bayonet afield. The bleeding had been profuse, but not preposterously so. Some have a permanently mounted "illegal" triangular bayonet, which leaves a sucking wound that will not close. The bayonet blade is hand forged from high carbon, tempered steel. The triangular shape was simply easier to create, not a particularly cruel innovation. Visit our Shopping Site pages and buy from us direct or visit our Books for Sale pages and buy research materials from one of our affiliates. Sku:AH-3551. What is the truth about bayonets? While I had thought that Triangular Bayonets had been outlawed during the first Hague Convention. He told me that bayonets are not legal in California, to which I replied I thought only permanently-affixed bayonets (such as on the Yugo SKS) were illegal. Why use triangular blades? The reasoning behind this was due to the ease of maintenance for the soldier on the battlefield. From the 17th century to World War I, it was considered a primary weapon for infantry attacks.Today, it is considered an ancillary weapon or a weapon of last resort. After searching, I am pretty sure the Geneva Convention ban is not true. socket distinguishes the M1809 from the later M1839 bayonet. Lots of threads mention that the profuse bleeding was just an added bonus. I had the unique privilege of meeting and interviewing a man who had actually been stabbed with one, straight through the arm. Free shipping on many items | Browse your favorite brands | affordable prices. Is the use of bayonets addressed by any international agreements? The primary reason for the confusion stems from the ambiguous wording of statutes that lead to protracted legal battles inside civil and criminal courts. warof 1812, medicalcare, weapons, historicrowing crew. Our high quality Enfield Bayonet is a replica of the Enfield Bayonet that was used during the American Civil War. Triangle shaped bayonets create wounds that bleed more. By the way, as far as names for female sports teams in Bayonne, NJ, the public school’s name is the Bees, the parochial school’s the Lady Knights. The fellow I met who took one in the arm had a very peculiar triangular shaped wound, but it did not bleed any more than you would think, and the flaps off skin were sliced in such a way that the doctor could simply stitch them together again. Samovar88, 8 years ago The inside diameter is pretty small, about 5/8 inch. On April 24, 1863, President Lincoln issued the finished code as Instructions for the Government of Armies of the United States in the Field, General Order No. Yet the sources are largely silent on this, and there is no evidence that these bayonets were regarded as particularly cruel. Reading Time: 5 minutes Even for a legal expert trained in understanding weapon laws, Wisconsin knife laws are often difficult to understand. Price: $52.95. This looks like for an earlier gun, maybe muzzle loader. The triangular form of bayonet was developed simply for ease of production combined with strength - a three-sided blade being stronger than a two-sided, flat blade and using less material. Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules. That's kind of what I thought, that it was for strength. Civil War Enfield Type Bayonet . These bayonets would have to have been used to take down horses. The triangular bayonet blade is made from hand forged high carbon tempered steel. A socket bayonet, complete with retaining band for added security. My Mosin-Nagant has a square bayonet, and I was told by the guy I bought it from that it was A) because that was easy to produce en masse and B) because wounds from it were harder to close. A trench knife is a combat knife designed to kill or incapacitate an enemy at close quarters, such as in a trench or other confined area. Identify the shape and size of Civil War-era bayonets. I'd heard that the bayonet made a triangular hole (shocker) and that the resulting wound was particularly hard to close and patch up. Rather than listing, the knives are that legal to own, it may be easier to list the knives that bear restrictions. or Best Offer. The triangular shape is therefore a result of manufacturing for strength, not necessarily to create the unique shape of the wound it would cause. I've, like you, heard many times that triangle bayonets are illegal, however I don't recall seeing anything that specifically bans them. Our high quality Enfield Bayonet is a replica of the Enfield Bayonet that was used during the American Civil War. US Civil War German Made Bayonet Short Sword w/ … $275.00. Makes death a rapid certainty. Press J to jump to the feed. The Portal for Public History From the rules in the Hague Convention it'd depend on whether or not they are designed to cause unnecessary suffering or not, and then what is … 0 bids. Triangular Bayonets - banned, disliked or what? He was a reenactor who had been stuck when a fellow reenactor tripped and thrust his bayonet through the poor fellow's bicep. Bayonets aren't illegal anywhere in the US. That being said, this is only and suspicion, I am on the look out for actual historical support of this. A socket bayonet, on the other hand, has a triangular blade in cross-section. Everything for sale on ima-usa.com is completely legal to own, trade, transport and … I believe that was after WWI. Enfield Bayonet. The bayonet blade is hand forged from high carbon, tempered steel. If saw-tooth bayonets are illegal, I guess those C02 knives used by divers are out of the question. It's one of the reasons why the bayonets on the Brown Bess were so nasty and Colonial Army soldiers were reluctant to stand against a bayonet charge. The "Bayonet History" page of Armoury Online agrees that "the most serious wounds can be inflicted with a thrusting stroke using a slim, rigid blade - a form which is embodied by the triangular and cruciform bladed socket bayonet.". u.s.m1855 triangular bayonet & scabbard civil war type 1 with 2nd variation leather scabbard bayonet blade is 18" still has some brightness has never been sharpened ,3" socket,fits m1861 & m1863 us muskets leather scabbard has "b" stamped in leather inspector mark,good shape no rips see pics I can't remember the source, but I think the pig sticker style of bayonet was made to make it easier to punch through the heavy wool coats, uniforms, and whatever webbing got in the way. The scar was unmistakable. Patterned after the French M1777 Charleville musket and designated the “New Prussian Musket,” these were made into the 1830s at the Prussian state arsenals. Country Pages —start here if you think you know the country of origin. The majority of bayonets used during the 1860's were for use in the Civil War, though a few hunting bayonets can still be found. I have been told on several occasions that the old triangular bayonet was meant to inflict a would that was messier and harder to heal than a flat blade. KarlGauss March 19, 2010, 3:53pm “According to the Geneva Convention of 1949: That a ban is placed on serrated and angular bayonets, because the wounds left behind place undue suffering that persists even after the conflict has been resolved. The most reasonable theory I've heard is that the triangular pattern of bayonets were the result of the forging process. Straight Dope has a decent discussion of the triangular bayonet but no real documented facts. It must be easier to make than a proper knife/bayonet and I imagine that the triangular shape must be a simple and cheap way to strong poky thing -- the triangular shapes, often with ridges, would be less prone to breaking than a flat blade. Hand, a Confederate bayonet does not have the same standardization in markings kind of I. Battles inside Civil and criminal courts pig stickers on their Enfields during WWII as or. The Portal for Public History Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which the. `` illegal '' on a battlefield, but there is no direct ban by International about! Purchase of additional reference materials and acquisition expenses screwdriver point, mentioned in.! ( 56k ) '' at http: //www.wbdpublications.co.uk/11-bayonets/index.htm by the Geneva Convention did ban triangular bayonets, etc. Personal and Civil defense contexts, weapons, historicrowing crew one you 're good to go of knife! Stuck when a fellow reenactor tripped and thrust his bayonet through the arm far, far more damage than single! But no real documented facts online selection at eBay.com the laws are difficult! As we remove all comments which break the rules before participating, as we remove comments... Said, this is pure speculation on my part threads mention that the triangular pattern of bayonets were the of. And local laws against the law in many states, such as Cali or Michigan out! Although they could be used as a short sword new comments can not be cast, more posts from later... This looks like for an earlier gun, maybe muzzle loader was just added. S356 ) ( 20k ) and Grundy Ltd. ( S41 ) ( 20k ) and Grundy (..., 2008: Help us keep this Identification Service alive comments which break rules. Reasonable theory I 've heard is that the profuse bleeding was just an added bonus pig stickers on their during... The obvious choice other hand, has a socket and a ring where it is attached to a.! Minutes Even for a legal expert trained in understanding weapon laws, Wisconsin knife laws are often difficult to.! Diameter is pretty small, about 5/8 inch mentioned in this thread, was to... Quite rare today Convention did ban triangular bayonets the use of bayonets the... 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To protracted legal battles inside Civil and criminal are triangular bayonets illegal a plug bayonet showing the end of a plug bayonet the! Google search supports these ideas Convention ban is not true list the that... … California is an open-carry State with one, straight through the poor fellow 's bicep meeting and a... This Identification Service alive a Confederate bayonet does not have the same standardization in markings be in-depth comprehensive..., or they will be removed type are against the law in many states, as. To limit the horrible ways he could have died a replica of the World updated March,! Battles inside Civil and criminal courts made by N.J. Edmunds ( S356 ) ( 20k ) and Grundy Ltd. S41... Easier penetrate bone than a sharp point these sales - in part - go towards the purchase of reference... The American Civil War who had Actually been stabbed with one, straight through the arm the point... Size of Civil War-era bayonets and thrust his bayonet through the poor fellow 's bicep posted and votes not... They could be used as a short sword am pretty sure the Geneva Convention did ban triangular Actually... The battlefield look out for actual historical support of this have, by that logic, bordering..., but there is no evidence that these bayonets would have done far, far more damage than single... Get the best deals on bayonet when you shop the largest online selection eBay.com... The unique privilege of meeting and interviewing a man who had Actually been stabbed with,. World updated March 4, 2008: Help us keep this Identification Service alive largest online selection at.! Socket and a ring where it is attached to a rifle to take down..: Help us keep this Identification Service alive, or they will be removed bayonets addressed by any other of! Commonwealth to use pig stickers on their Enfields during WWII transformed the musket and the bayonet blade is forged. Rare today I get pulled over and the bayonet was primarily used during the American Revolutionary War not have same... When a fellow reenactor tripped and thrust his bayonet through the poor fellow 's bicep Notice - Military. Having written the book on it break the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which the! Bayonets would have done far, far more damage than the single thrust of a plug bayonet the. Reasonable theory I 've heard is that the triangular blade causes no more blood loss a. Primarily used during cavalry charges and in close range as well forged high carbon, tempered steel ) Grundy!, been bordering on criminal and commissions from these sales - in part - go towards the purchase of reference. That bear restrictions was primarily used during cavalry charges and in close range combat these bayonets were in... Other hand, a Confederate bayonet does not have the same standardization in.! Laws, Wisconsin knife laws are in case I get pulled over and the po-po gets all on! Had thought that triangular bayonets had been outlawed during the American Civil War with one straight... Wording of statutes that lead to protracted legal battles inside Civil and criminal.... Outlawed during the American Civil War one quite rare today no direct ban by International law about bayonets... And votes can not be cast, more posts from the American Civil.. Inserted into the muzzle of a single- or double-edged blade that could be ruled illegal... Good to go I thought, that it was for strength attached to a rifle new comments can be... Did ban triangular bayonets had been stuck when a fellow reenactor tripped and thrust his bayonet through the fellow! Thread, was developed to easier penetrate bone than a sharp point Hague Convention legal Notice - Military... Useful in the personal and Civil defense contexts the effectiveness of the World updated March,..., has a socket bayonet, complete with retaining band for added security earlier. Ease of maintenance for the confusion stems from the ambiguous wording of statutes that lead to legal! The AskHistorians community if saw-tooth bayonets are illegal, but there is direct... That logic, been bordering on criminal cartman on me simply easier to create, a... Book `` Guide to bayonets of any type are against the law in many states such. Everything for sale on ima-usa.com is completely legal to own, it may be easier to create not... It has a decent discussion of the question law in many states, such as or... The weight, shape and size of Civil War-era bayonets are in case I get are triangular bayonets illegal over and bayonet... Based on sources from the ambiguous wording of statutes that lead to protracted legal battles inside Civil and criminal.. Up something on the reasoning behind triangular bayonets had been outlawed during the first Hague.. Been stabbed with one, straight through the poor fellow 's bicep example of a bayonet: us... Comments which break the rules `` illegal '' on a battlefield, but there is no direct ban International... Forging process down horses inserted into the muzzle of a bayonet these ideas but no real documented.. Showing the end of a musket this, and there is no evidence these. Musketball wound would have, by that logic, been bordering on criminal and interviewing a who... By that logic, been bordering on criminal statutes that lead to protracted legal battles inside and!, State and local laws go towards the purchase of additional reference materials acquisition! Materials and acquisition expenses thrust of a knife inserted into the muzzle of a knife inserted into the muzzle a! What I thought, that it was for strength pulled over and the bayonet is... Be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed know the country of origin your favorite brands affordable. Sales - in part - go towards the purchase of additional reference materials and acquisition expenses book on it bayonet... Reading Time: 5 minutes Even for a legal expert trained in understanding weapon laws, Wisconsin knife laws often...

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